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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 13:09:19 GMT -8
Now that we have identified the "good enough" optic, what about a "good enough" weapon light?
We are talking about a flashlight here for crying out loud!
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Post by mrbmwguy206 on Jun 12, 2012 15:02:34 GMT -8
For a weapon mounted light, I use Surefire. I have the X300 on my Glock. For my Ar15, I also have a X300 with remote dual switch. For my Benelli M4 shotgun, I'm using a Streamlight TLR-1 with remote switch. Handheld light I am using a Surefire G2X Pro LED light.
I might look into Insight flashlights in the future but for now, the Surefire and Streamlights that I have are working very well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 16:11:31 GMT -8
I just have a feeling that the folks in China could come up with a clone that would undercut the whole market for expensive lights.
I know that has been the case with high end bicycle lights.
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Post by tiernone06 on Jun 12, 2012 16:18:30 GMT -8
For a budget WML there are two options that come to mind that provide enough lumens and at a low enough price point... Streamlight TLR1 or the old school SF G2 switched out to LED in a VTAC offset mount. Both around $100ish, give or take depending on source. You can take lower quality optics off when they fail and continue the class or continue the fight with irons, but if a WML goes down... :/
I'd avoid the knockoff/low budget stuff for all accessories, but especially not with a light.
For carry/handheld lights that won't be subjected to recoil, sure. I use Quark and Fenix because they're cheaper, brighter, and run on common batts. But for weapon lights I wouldn't touch anything but Surefire or Streamlight. I've had my Fenix carry light fail to activate a couple of times with nothing but pocket carry but the G2Z I've used since '04 has never had issues at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 16:53:44 GMT -8
How hard can it be to build a reliable flashlight in 2012?
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Post by tiernone06 on Jun 12, 2012 17:03:05 GMT -8
Not hard, I'd imagine. When it comes to defensive shooting though, I wouldn't bank on new and innovative if it isn't proven. Look at the Glock Gen 4s. The previous generations were fine but I recall that the first Gen 4s had a lot of problems. Who knows, Jetbeam or Fenix might have the next best thing going for weaponlights. But until they've been proven to work over time and in crappy conditions over a widespread scale, I'll stick with what's been known to work. I don't even trust the new G2s for weapon mounting, to be honest... not yet at least.
EDIT: and by proven I don't mean some guy chiming in "I've got this light mounted on my AR and I've put 200 rounds through it, seems ok." It's a common thing on boards for someone to think that just because the cheap thing they bought works alright, the quality is the same across the board. Not usually the case...
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Post by mrbmwguy206 on Jun 12, 2012 17:06:48 GMT -8
I use to have a HWA/WYS UltraFire flashlight with about 500 lumens. It was very cheap and super bright. It was compared to the Surefire M3LT light.
I tested the reliability of the UltraFire flashlight so I mounted it on my 12 gauge shotgun. After a many birdshot, buckshot, and slugs, the flashlight continued to work. However, a week or two later it worked intermittently and then just stopped working. All 5 LEDs were not damaged but when I opened it up, liquid starting to flow out. It was the battery acid that leaked out and damaged the circuit board.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 17:40:32 GMT -8
I haven't found a cheap alternative yet, but I do think that the manufacturers of high end stuff have a very strong incentive to spread FUD re. the competition.
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jvv556
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Post by jvv556 on Jun 12, 2012 20:52:11 GMT -8
Streamlight Polytac LED.
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Post by serpenthammer on Jun 13, 2012 10:56:08 GMT -8
I remember back several years ago Ken Goode ( co-founder Surefire Institute ) pushed the doctrine of " two is one , one is none " with regards to white light employment. Thus said I remember seeing several WLM Surefiren with dual headlamps or carbines with two weapons lights mounted.
Since perhaps we are seeking a cheaper WLM alternative , we could just follow this sound principle of employing Two WML on a carbine and carrying a second handheld light on our person while having a WML on our handgun.
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Post by wsmc27 on Jun 13, 2012 13:21:31 GMT -8
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Post by wsmc27 on Jun 13, 2012 14:04:45 GMT -8
... Since perhaps we are seeking a cheaper WLM alternative , we could just follow this sound principle of employing Two WML on a carbine and carrying a second handheld light on our person while having a WML on our handgun. Having a couple kids in the house have found we greatly prefer a couple handheld light methods with pistol, we won't put a wml on the 9 or 45 here. Harries, Surefire, FBI better for us, running a G2X in a V70 (if geared up). Otherwise the hh light is bedside. More IS better on the AR...saw this the other day on CalGuns: j/k, the one light-equipped AR we have has a lightweight Elzetta with the 'budget" (and light) Streamlight Polytac. Liking the 6 o'clock position and easy activation when rifle is mounted right or left side. No tapes/switches/wires to worry about. Agreed with those who suggest to get a quality light for your HD needs.
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Post by tiernone06 on Jun 13, 2012 15:09:12 GMT -8
Having a couple kids in the house have found we greatly prefer a couple handheld light methods with pistol, we won't put a wml on the 9 or 45 here. Harries, Surefire, FBI better for us, running a G2X in a V70 (if geared up). Otherwise the hh light is bedside. wsmc27, mind providing your insight to this man? I'm trying to figure out your reasoning for that. Are they older children of yours that may come home late or something, and you would want a handheld light to ID them and not necessarily flag them with a WML? Or are you talking really young children that you'd need to handle in the case of a break in? In which case I don't see the purpose of the decision to use a handheld. Wouldn't you want a WML in that case so that you can run the gun AND light with one hand while the other hand calls 911/guides your children to safety/etc? Or am I missing something?
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Post by wsmc27 on Jun 13, 2012 16:25:12 GMT -8
wsmc27, mind providing your insight to this man? I'm trying to figure out your reasoning for that. Are they older children of yours that may come home late or something, and you would want a handheld light to ID them and not necessarily flag them with a WML? This scenario is more likely as they have gotten older and are out after the parents bedtime occasionally. And if they break one of our windows at 1:00am they are in beeeeg trouble. Or are you talking really young children that you'd need to handle in the case of a break in? In which case I don't see the purpose of the decision to use a handheld. Wouldn't you want a WML in that case so that you can run the gun AND light with one hand while the other hand calls 911/guides your children to safety/etc? Or am I missing something? Mmmm maybe missing a wife to handle the phone and children while you ID and/or gun the BG? ;D haha j/k Our plan: Wife handles phone and lastline defense for kids, I go downstairs searching. This discussion may deserve it's own thread? Maybe Stans views (and all of yours collectivly?) on low-light/no-light tactics and techniques? Noting, my low-light experience has been with other trainers then Stan, it does seem there are a variety of scenarios and trainers' thoughts on best ways to be >as safe as possible< in the house with your gun. I can imagine if I was 20 years younger and lived alone a lil' WML on the 9 would be nice. Different homes, different family situations require different plans?
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Post by mqd123 on Jun 13, 2012 22:44:41 GMT -8
I have this one on my AR from Amazon:
Ultrafire Wf 502b Cree Xml T6 3 Mode Cree Led Flashlight 900 Lumens w/ Integrated Belt Clip
and this one on my Sig P226:
NcStar Pistol and Rifle Led Flashlight/Quick Release Weaver (AQPTF)
I got both from Amazon. Sorry, no pics, couldn't figure out how to copy and paste here. I think I picked both of them up for a total of $40.
The caveat is, I haven't tried them out at Stan's class yet, so they may not work out as well as I think they will.
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