Open Criticism of a Saint Crispian Class on Calguns
Feb 18, 2014 22:20:05 GMT -8
supernachos likes this
Post by Stan on Feb 18, 2014 22:20:05 GMT -8
I have just taken a beginning pistol class with one of the more popular schools listed in a poll in this forum. I took that beginning class even though I could have easily "tested/qualified" for one of the schools more advanced offerings out the gate because I wanted to see/evaluate the instructors teaching style and approach to the basics and safety. The basics ARE the basics and there is very little variation on that theme. Additionally, safety protocols are PARAMOUNT in a beginning class when the instructor/school should be evaluating each student first and foremost on safety concepts adhered to. I have to admit, sadly, that I was VERY disappointed both in the safety protocols, teaching style and dissemination of information. I was the only person there, instructor included, wearing body armor which for a number of reasons both class specific and in principle, should always be worn IMHO.
This instructor promotes his military background (one of the reasons I choose this school) extensively and it is now clear to me that just because someone has, in the words of Col. Jeff Cooper, "seen the elephant" (been deployed to the sandbox/maybe seen combat) and survived, in no way means he can effectively "teach" that skill set to others.
While I will not identify this school discussed above publicly, in the interests of full disclosure, I have trained extensively with Max Joseph and his cadre at Tactical Firearms Training Team/ Direct Action Group.
This instructor promotes his military background (one of the reasons I choose this school) extensively and it is now clear to me that just because someone has, in the words of Col. Jeff Cooper, "seen the elephant" (been deployed to the sandbox/maybe seen combat) and survived, in no way means he can effectively "teach" that skill set to others.
While I will not identify this school discussed above publicly, in the interests of full disclosure, I have trained extensively with Max Joseph and his cadre at Tactical Firearms Training Team/ Direct Action Group.
So Stephen (Ronin2) above posted this on calguns.net at www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=13471897#post13471897 at the famous 2013 training poll post. "Supernachos" brought this to my attention so I first confirmed it was Stephen from the 8 Feb class and in a round about way says yes it is.
All I needed to know so I responded with this post:
Greetings Steve,
I wish you had brought this to my attention first but I'm sorry you did not enjoy the class and thought that it was unsafe.
This is the very first public mud sling I have had in over three years of business which is a little surprising anyways.
As far as safety protocols I did and always mention the following in all live fire classes:
4 Weapons Safety Rules:
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
2. Do not point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire
4. Keep weapon on safe until you intend to fire
*Know your target and backstop
**1 meter safety circle
***Unholstering etiquette: face either downrange or towards the berm
****Self Time Out: No shame
*****Work bench 90 deg from downrange
******Everyone is a safety officer: shared responsibility
*******First Aid & Casualty evacuation plan (GSW demonstration of pressure bandage, quik clot, CAT tourniquet and MEDEVAC plan. Designated ambulance with car keys in ignition with yahoo map of Olive View UCLA on dashboard.
Additional safety prac app of yelling at each other for safety concerns.
I remember vividly that night of constant line checks, segregation of experienced vs inexperienced students and more.
I have had ZERO casualties from accidental/negligent GSWs as Saint Crispian LLC or during my time in uniform which not everyone in the SoCal (and even Angeles Shooting Range affiliated) training schools can claim. Not one single errant shot to the leg, hand or demo vehicle. None.
I'm wondering why you stayed until the very end if you felt unsafe, I would not have if so. Anyways, I will offer you a refund (minus paypal fees) since you were not satisfied, just let me know.
Sincerely,
Stan
I wish you had brought this to my attention first but I'm sorry you did not enjoy the class and thought that it was unsafe.
This is the very first public mud sling I have had in over three years of business which is a little surprising anyways.
As far as safety protocols I did and always mention the following in all live fire classes:
4 Weapons Safety Rules:
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
2. Do not point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire
4. Keep weapon on safe until you intend to fire
*Know your target and backstop
**1 meter safety circle
***Unholstering etiquette: face either downrange or towards the berm
****Self Time Out: No shame
*****Work bench 90 deg from downrange
******Everyone is a safety officer: shared responsibility
*******First Aid & Casualty evacuation plan (GSW demonstration of pressure bandage, quik clot, CAT tourniquet and MEDEVAC plan. Designated ambulance with car keys in ignition with yahoo map of Olive View UCLA on dashboard.
Additional safety prac app of yelling at each other for safety concerns.
I remember vividly that night of constant line checks, segregation of experienced vs inexperienced students and more.
I have had ZERO casualties from accidental/negligent GSWs as Saint Crispian LLC or during my time in uniform which not everyone in the SoCal (and even Angeles Shooting Range affiliated) training schools can claim. Not one single errant shot to the leg, hand or demo vehicle. None.
I'm wondering why you stayed until the very end if you felt unsafe, I would not have if so. Anyways, I will offer you a refund (minus paypal fees) since you were not satisfied, just let me know.
Sincerely,
Stan
Just a couple take aways from this:
*If you have any safety concerns (which you should always be attentive to) please let me know. If you feel unsafe with the guy/girl next to you let me know.
If you don't feel like I am teaching something clearly let me know. As you all know, I don't have time in my classes for after class admin, very little lecture. We go from prac app to live fire and then I get you out of there. I's sure most of you wouldn't have it any other way.
Anyways, I hope Stephen is just a vocal minority or at worst a shill for another shop.
Take care!