Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2012 20:25:59 GMT -8
If your AR can handle Wolf reliably, what do you attribute it to?
If your AR can't, what do you think the problem is?
Personally I've never tried it b/c a) I'm usually shooting somewhere it's not allowed b) I find the AR complicated to clean as it is c) I'm afraid of having my rifle "choke"
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Post by mqd123 on Jun 2, 2012 7:24:29 GMT -8
I just bought a couple of thousand rounds but they're back ordered to Sept. As soon as I shoot them, I'll let you know. Prado allows you to use Wolf.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2012 8:13:58 GMT -8
Here's my idea behind this poll: to figure out if there's a particular configuration that allows the AR to shoot these rounds without a problem. This subject has been discussed exhaustively on other forums, perhaps too exhaustively. My idea is to boil it down to a simple explanation and see if there is a configuration that can guarantee good results.
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Post by mqd123 on Jun 2, 2012 12:42:07 GMT -8
I think that for the money that i paid for my AR, it better be able to shoot anything!
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Post by wckalijkd on Jun 2, 2012 20:36:21 GMT -8
I shot about 120rds of Wolf thru my Bushmaster M4 during Low Light few weeks back. No problems so far.
My rifle has an EZ 5000+ rds thru it since 2004 when I switched to a 14.5 barrel. Everything on it is stock. I think my rifle ate Wolf ammo cuz it is well broken in.
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jvv556
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Post by jvv556 on Jun 2, 2012 23:43:34 GMT -8
Wolf and PMC are mild loadings and dont produce as much pressure in the gas tube as milspec ammo. Your bolt will shortstroke if theres not enough pressure pushing it back. Because of this the weight of buffer, size of gas port, and length of barrel from gas port to muzzle is important.
IME I've shot Wolf in the following with no problems:
Carbine length gas system with barrel length of 14.5" or more with H2 buffer or lighter should cycle wolf.
Midlength gas system with barrel length of 16" or more with H buffer or lighter should cycle wolf .
Riflelength gas system with barrel length of 20" or more with Rifle buffer should cycle wolf.
YMMV
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2012 12:18:37 GMT -8
I've read of 3 main problems with Wolf and by Wolf I'm referring generically to all of the steel cased East Bloc low budget ammo (Tula, Herters, Bear, etc.):
a) lower power to cycle the action of your rifle
b) various kinds of lacquers and coatings of the cases which leave gunk in your rifle and clog it up
c) The fact that steel cases don't cause as tight of a seal when fired as brass causing more powder fouling, leading to malfunctions
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Post by Stan on Jun 4, 2012 13:45:07 GMT -8
I've read of 3 main problems with Wolf and by Wolf I'm referring generically to all of the steel cased East Bloc low budget ammo (Tula, Herters, Bear, etc.): a) lower power to cycle the action of your rifle b) various kinds of lacquers and coatings of the cases which leave gunk in your rifle and clog it up c) The fact that steel cases don't cause as tight of a seal when fired as brass causing more powder fouling, leading to malfunctions I have had one rifle fail to extract or cycle with Wolf so I believe (A) occurs in this one. (B) At least with Wolf, their polymer coating does not flake off or adhere during cycling. Laquer coating? Not sure if anyone is doing this with current .223 ammo like they did with Eastern Bloc AK ammo. Another reason why a chrome-lined barrel is a good idea. (C) Probably one of the best theories out there and makes sense why steel cases get stuck so often. Another trick is to lube the ammo itself with something light like Rem Oil. I would never do this in combat but only for training. Bottom line is that the steel cased ammo is so much cheaper. There is no clear evidence that it damages extractors or ejectors any worse than brass but for the cost savings you could buy replacement extractors and ejectors many times over. This is all I shoot, it does get dirtier but not significantly so that I would stop using it. I would say just "slightly" dirtier. Scrubbing is scrubbing and it comes off. Do stay away from the Wolf hollow point ammo for your AR-15s. Nothing but problems there, it tends to get stuck during chambering. Runs fine in my Robinson though; magazine sits higher in relation to the chamber in this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 19:16:52 GMT -8
Aside from paranoia re. having equipment fail during class, it totally makes sense to use the cheapest ammo possible for general training and plinking.
How do you usually remove the stuck cases, cleaning rod down the barrel or some special tool?
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hayaku
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Post by hayaku on Jun 4, 2012 20:44:47 GMT -8
i've ran a few thousand through my lmt piston without issue... slightly less than that through my noveske n4 light recce with young nm bcg. both without any issues other than the occasional double feed. How do you usually remove the stuck cases, cleaning rod down the barrel or some special tool? there is a technique they call "grenading the gun". you slam the buttstock on the deck while pulling the charging handle down hard. could result in the bcg ripping the rim off the stuck case and then you would need to jam a cleaning rod down to clear it.
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Post by Stan on Jun 4, 2012 21:52:18 GMT -8
Aside from paranoia re. having equipment fail during class, it totally makes sense to use the cheapest ammo possible for general training and plinking. How do you usually remove the stuck cases, cleaning rod down the barrel or some special tool? Most of the stuck cases I've had with steel casings were not merely dropping a cleaning rod down the muzzle and/or tapping with a rubber mallet...I had to take the rifle with rod in the muzzle, find the nearest/hardest steel column and ram the sonofgum as hard as possible. You're lucky if the gentler ways work and should be tried first but be prepared. Best to have a steel GI cleaning rod already set up and ready to go. There is a reason why the AK-47 had a cleaning rod built into the design.
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Post by wsmc27 on Jun 12, 2012 9:24:44 GMT -8
No Wolf onhand...just wanted to share we ran a brand new PSA 16" middy upper yesterday at Stans' afternoon Skillbuilder and ran a few different steel cased ammos' without any prob at all.
Included were MFS, Tula, Herters, and Hornady Practice. The Herters was 62gr HP, the others all 55gr FMJ. Also ran some PMC brass cased. Round count was fairly low, mainly was interested to see how these fed/extracted, etc.
Have previously run 1000+ rounds of Tula and 500+ rounds of the Hornady through our older DPMS 16" upper. iirc we had a couple f-t-f in 2010 when the rifle was pretty dirty.
The lower we've been generally using has a A2 stock with standard rifle buffer and spring. After a malf with my buffer spring indent at the 303 class, we ran a LW-15 lower w/carbine buffer and spring, approx. 500 rounds (almost all Tula iirc). No probs or issues at all with that set-up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 10:34:51 GMT -8
Can't wait to get one of those LW-15s to try out.
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Post by mievil on Jun 19, 2012 11:17:23 GMT -8
I put approximately 600rds of Wolf Poly FMJ down the AR this weekend in a mixed fire rate. Sometimes slow, sometimes quick, never as fast as a mag dump. I had three instances of the bolt not staying open on an empty mag. I am using the standard buffer that came in my CAA 6POS.
Other than that, I did put one brass PMC round in every 30 round bag as I read somewhere that this may help clean out some of the gunk encountered.
I had zero extraction issues, and I am perfectly happy with running it and saving $100 on a case. I figure even if you had to buy an entire bolt it would still be less than money I'm saving by shooting the steel.
I am still a little leary of running the lacquer stuff, but I must admit that it is an irrational fear based on internet myth and lore. No personal experience using that stuff.
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Post by airhead1775 on Jun 28, 2012 20:35:23 GMT -8
I have had Wolf stick in my AR, now use it in my bolt action rifle only.
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