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Post by Stan on Aug 20, 2013 21:17:44 GMT -8
www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=810991Greetings All, The above link is on calguns concerning some hostility towards a St. Crispian alumni from a well known and established instructor who also trains at Angeles Shooting Range. This famous instructor advanced towards the person in question and spoke rudely and loudly (and of course with a gun on his hip) and very unnecessarily at that. For all Angeles standby courses, please remain at the public parking lot and follow me in once I know which one for sure. He is ALWAYS at the Eagles A & B range and if we are at the C or D range just try to drive through slowly with as little disruption to his classes as possible. Some good points brought up by the calguns posters: *If anyone hassles you and asks you questions and they are not wearing the Angeles Range logo shirt, then you quite simply ask, "Who are you? Why do you want to know?" *If someone is no longer a law enforcement officer as of TODAY then they are simply a citizen just like you or me and treat them accordingly. *The most effective thing you can do in this situation is inform the President of Angeles Shooting Range via paper letter since he still is technically using THEIR range...it's not his. Below is the address should the need ever arise: President Angeles Shooting Range 12651 Little Tujunga Canyon Lake View Terrace, CA 91342 I have been reported by this man more than five times for mostly petty issues or at least ones that could have been remedied on the spot so I am particularly careful when he is around because without a range there is no academy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2013 9:35:20 GMT -8
That really sucks.
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jvv556
Junior Member
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Post by jvv556 on Aug 22, 2013 11:27:13 GMT -8
Sorry to hear about that. It's unfortunate that this other instructor is acting like an A-hole.
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Post by kayaker55 on Aug 25, 2013 19:09:26 GMT -8
Stan,
We've talked before about this situation several times. Here's a suggestion: Use Fort Angles range when available. That way TASC students have no need to drive up the hill. Also, FA guarantees a better workout !
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Post by Stan on Aug 29, 2013 19:01:26 GMT -8
Greetings,
I’ve been keeping a minimal footprint on this issue and have been keeping “off the radio” as much as possible and have not nor will not comment on calguns.net about it. I will comment here because this proboard is OUR frequency to do with as we please:
The way I see it, we have an armed man harassing and perhaps brandishing a weapon to fellow shooters, range customers, and American citizens. Whatever he was or accomplished in his past means nothing because it is clearly wrong. If anyone else did this we would have an arrest or court case.
Complaints from me to the range will go no where as the person in question is also a board member of the range. However, complaints from you customers of Angeles Shooting Range to the range president would mean significantly more.
My idea is simple, he is trying to deter my business via distraction, hostilities and intimidation. I would like to turn that around on him should this continue to occur by you customers reporting him to the range president.
I have no fantasy that he will be put out of business etc. but it should definitely put a scratch in the paint at least.
Someone mentioned to me that we should try and fix this offline and directly to the offender but I believe is would be ineffective to try and talk sense to someone who is apparently irrational and power-drunk. What my student accomplished by posting it on calguns.net was alert the entire training community of his behavior and it will no longer be a surprise to anyone and we know the appropriate course of action to take.
Here’s to interesting times guys.
Stan
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 8:04:34 GMT -8
If it gets serious, you may want to consult a lawyer. There is such a thing as tortious interference with a business.
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nick
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Post by nick on Aug 30, 2013 8:34:20 GMT -8
Last year I was taking a class with Stan and the guy was on the next range. At the very beginning of the class, while we were still unloading gear from our cars, he approached Stan. I didn't know anything about him, just knew him from his website.
I wasn't within hearing distance, but from his demeanor he was hostile towards Stan. I was very surprised by that, and I assumed I was simply wrong. Later on, when I got to hear some stories about him, I realized I had been right. I am not a trained behaviorist, but if I may say so myself, I am pretty good at evaluating people and demeanor.
This is not something that would pass the test in a court of law, but it definitely says a lot about the guy's character. I will write the ASR president and express my support for Stan.
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Post by supernachos on Aug 30, 2013 22:38:29 GMT -8
Greetings, I’ve been keeping a minimal footprint on this issue and have been keeping “off the radio” as much as possible and have not nor will not comment on calguns.net about it. I will comment here because this proboard is OUR frequency to do with as we please: The way I see it, we have an armed man harassing and perhaps brandishing a weapon to fellow shooters, range customers, and American citizens. Whatever he was or accomplished in his past means nothing because it is clearly wrong. If anyone else did this we would have an arrest or court case. Complaints from me to the range will go no where as the person in question is also a board member of the range. However, complaints from you customers of Angeles Shooting Range to the range president would mean significantly more. My idea is simple, he is trying to deter my business via distraction, hostilities and intimidation. I would like to turn that around on him should this continue to occur by you customers reporting him to the range president. I have no fantasy that he will be put out of business etc. but it should definitely put a scratch in the paint at least. Someone mentioned to me that we should try and fix this offline and directly to the offender but I believe is would be ineffective to try and talk sense to someone who is apparently irrational and power-drunk. What my student accomplished by posting it on calguns.net was alert the entire training community of his behavior and it will no longer be a surprise to anyone and we know the appropriate course of action to take. Here’s to interesting times guys. Stan I just hope it doesn't escalate to confrontation to the point he does a *Zimmerman*! Many of us are all now well aware of his identity and tactics and will not be taken by surprise by his hostile behavior. In so saying many of us are not *push-overs*. If he thinks he can belittle and dis-respects us (like from what we have heard so far) like little children, some of us will not take that disrespect lightly and stand up against that sort of behavior and not be bullied or intimidated. An escalation might ensue to something I think will be ugly, like a Zimmerman. Personally, I think this situation needs to diffused now by the Angeles Range Management before something *ugly* occurs. He needs to be told that his confrontational behavior is unacceptable. If he has a grievance with a fellow instructor, Angeles Range Management must give him procedure on how to file that grievance. Angeles Range Management should instruct him that, under any circumstance, he should *NOT* approach or confront any student or instructor from a competing training outfit. Depending on the gravity of his grievance, he can file a complaint with the Angeles Range Management right there and then. The management then should be the ones that talk to the opposing Instructor for resolution of the grievance. Just my 2 centavos! |
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Post by serpenthammer on Sept 1, 2013 22:10:53 GMT -8
Gents,
I am a keen admirer of TASC 's founding father Stan Lee. I consider him both a great teacher and mentor for close to a year and a half now . He has built his school and his reputation by imparting his wisdom , experience and knowledge of what we consider as a martial art. Many of us who have had time spent with Stan both on and off range consider him as among the " quiet professionals"
He need not trumpet his horn , aggrandize , turn on the propaganda machine to earn the respect of others.
His school has never been about himself and nor does he need to have his ego stroked every time he is in front of his students. I have never heard him start a sentence by saying " There I was in the AO , the sandbox, in the sweltering jungles ..etc., . It has and will always will be about his students , his motivation and his purpose to train and be better at the skills we wish to refine and pursue. I have seen Stan patiently counsel students who have never handled a firearm become proficient and confident by the end of the session. I have never heard of Stan canceling a class because only one student showed up for that session.
What have I learned from Stan which I believe is TASC's greatest asset? Humility ...a trait very rarely seen in personality centric or ego driven training schools. We have seen Stan's video manifesto about TASC. That our training is synonymous to the Bushido code where humility is among its principal values. That entrusted with lethal skill sets we instill within ourselves self control , level headedness and never ending patience . Learn how to defuse a confrontation . The greatest triumph of a real warrior is when disputes are resolved without the need to unsheathe one's blade. De escalate and diffuse a possible confrontation. No need to fan the flame of discord by going Mano y Mano , quid pro quo because of rudeness or hostility. Fight rudeness with courtesy because you know you are the better person than he. Stay in your lane , give way to someone else's perceived territory. Let them think that they are king of that hill! That is not the battlefield that Stan has taught us to dominate. Someday sometime I will stand my ground but that fight will occur when defending the lives of who I love utilizing skills I have sharpened with Stan. It will never be that piece of barren land, dusty, desolate , rocky and barren.
A warrior triumphs not through force alone but mindset and overcoming the heart and mind. Learn to fluff rather than unruffle feathers . Turn an enemy into friend... That my dear colleagues is the act of the greater warrior. That my dear friend is the ultimate mindfuck...
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Post by kayaker55 on Sept 2, 2013 11:01:08 GMT -8
Well said Serpenthammer. It's up to TASC students to support Stan by addressing all issues / concerns directly to the Angeles President. Sharing concerns with daily range management won't get very far. Also, it must be in writing. There is a dramatic need to show a consistent pattern of inappropriate / hostile behavior towards Stan and TASC students. If this doesn't happen, the behavior will continue. In fact, it's been escalating for a while. In the meantime, follow Stan's protocol when arriving and shooting at Angeles. Stan's a good man. He deserves our support.
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nick
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Post by nick on Sept 2, 2013 18:15:33 GMT -8
My letter to the president of ASR is in the mail. If you read this thread and believe in Stan's honesty, please make the effort and write an old fashioned letter and mail it.
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3ng
New Member
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Post by 3ng on Sept 21, 2013 20:17:27 GMT -8
My next visit to ASR for stans course, ill have my friend with me ready to take a video. so whoever approach me in my vehicle with that kind of attitude I can use it when I make my complain to ASR management
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